scilogs Dark Matter Crisis

Dark Matter: A debate at the Bethe Center for Theoretical Physics at Bonn University

from Pavel Kroupa, 01. November 2010, 11:25

On July 15th, 2010, Pavel Kroupa held an invited colloquium on "Local Group galaxies as critical tests of the contemporary cosmological model and its failure" at the Helmholtz-Institut fuer Strahlen und Kernphysik of the University of Bonn. The venue had to be shifted to a larger lecture theatre.
The Bethe Center for Theoretical Physics invited Prof. Dr. Simon White (Max Planck Institue for Astrophysics, Garching) and on July 16th Pavel Kroupa (AIfA, Bonn) to hold the Bethe Colloquium on "Dark Matter: a debate".
It will take place on November 18th, 2010, at 3:15 pm, in Lecture Hall 1 of the Physikalisches Institut, Nussallee 12, 53115 Bonn. It is open for all interested. However, it is not likely to be easily accessible for the lay person. The abstract of the Nov.18th Bethe Colloquium reads:
"The subject of this months Bethe Colloquium concerns a question at the interface of cosmology, astrophysics and elementary particle physics: the possible existence of Dark Matter. The existence of Dark Matter is the most prominent proposal to account for the discrepancy between measurements of the mass of galaxies, clusters of galaxies and the entire universe, and measurements based on the mass of the visible matter. So far the existence of Dark Matter is inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter and background radiation and not through direct detection. In his talk Professor S. White introduces the dark matter paradigm and explains its virtues. An alternative proposal to explain the observed discrepancies is introduced by Professor P. Kroupa. He argues that these effects could be due to a modification of the laws of gravity without the need of Dark Matter. The talks are followed by a discussion."
The web-site of the Bethe Colloquia can be found here, and the poster advertising the debate is provided below. A higher resolution pdf version of the poster can be downloaded here. Uni-Bonn-TV will prepare a videopodcast of the event.
 See the overview of topics in  The Dark Matter Crisis.

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  1. Joachim Blechle Fehlende theoretische Grundlagen
    03.11.2010 | 20:30

    Sehr geehrter Professor Kroupa,
    das Bild über das Universum ist wie ein Puzzle, mit 3 Unterschieden, man weiß vorher nicht wie es aussieht, man weiß nicht, wie viele Teile es hat und man muss jedes Teil einzeln anfertigen.
    Die im Wesentlichen auf die Erde begrenzte Grundlagenforschung hat der Menschheit aber bisher nur im begrenzten Umfang Teile für das Puzzle Universum liefern können.
    Trotzdem wurde anhand nur eines Puzzleteils das Bild über das gesamte Universum bestimmt.
    Es fehlt beispielsweise an erster Stelle die quantenphysikalische Beschreibung der Masse mit ihren Eigenschaften Trägheit und Schwere.
    Solange man nicht die erforderlichen theoretischen Grundlagen abgeleitet aus experimentellen Ergebnissen besitzt und den direkten Nachweis der Existenz der Dunklen Materie erbracht hat, bleibt die Diskussion um die dunkle Materie eine Diskussion über ein Phantom. Dunkle Materie ist lediglich die mathematische Antwort darauf, dass man die Entstehung und Bewegung der Galaxien nicht verstanden hat.
    Das von Dr. Tajmar erzielte Experimentalergebnis mit dem Laserkreisel sagt mir, dass die sichtbare Bewegung nicht mit der tatsächlichen wirkenden Bewegung übereinstimmen muss. Das stimmt mit meinen Erkenntnissen über die Quantenphysik von Trägheit und Schwere überein.
    Die Rotationsgeschwindigkeit der Galaxien muss also nicht mit der Wirkungsgeschwindigkeit übereinstimmen, die die Trägheit erzeugt. Die Wirkungsgeschwindigkeit kann viel kleiner sein, als die sichtbare Geschwindigkeit.
    Unabhängig von vorhandenem Wissen muss der Wissenschaftler bereits aus der sichtbaren Struktur den grundsätzlichen Vorgang des Entstehens der Spiralgalaxien ableiten können. Hier hilft aber nur Intuition, kein mathematisches Modell.
    Trotzdem viel Erfolg bei der weiteren Diskussion!
    Mit freundlichen Grüßen
    Joachim Blechle

  2. sarah webstream?
    03.11.2010 | 21:30

    Will the debate be streamed online? (yes please!)

  3. Pavel Kroupa reply/Antwort to Joachim Blechle
    04.11.2010 | 10:40

    Dear Joachim,

    Please forgive me for answering in English - this blog is read world wide.

    For the moment I would like to merely state that I completely agree with you.

    I will be posting a more in depth statement on why such a debate is necessary (for example in view of your correct observations) in the weeks following the debate.

    Best, Pavel

  4. Pavel Kroupa reply to sarah
    04.11.2010 | 10:43

    Dear Sarah,

    I am afraid I do not know whether the debate will be broadcast life, since I am not the organiser of this event. We may find out though in due time and then I'll put a note about it here.

    Best, Pavel

  5. Pavel Kroupa reply2 to sarah
    05.11.2010 | 10:08

    Dear Sarah,

    I have been told that the UniBonnTV recording will be put on its web-page (see link in this blog) after the debate.


  6. Jin He No Debate is needed!
    06.11.2010 | 05:14

    I am writing my next paper on galaxies.
    If the paper gets published, no debate is needed!

  7. Daniel Fischer The format of the debate
    13.11.2010 | 19:34

    Do you know already how the debate will be organized and who will be the host? From an audience perspective I think two main questions should be addressed: a) how relevant are the observational problems you say you have identified relative to the widely accepted Big Picture with Lambda & CDM, and b) is there a plausible alternative that is as good in explaining all the other observational data? By the way, Great Debates don't necessarily offer good guidance about where a field is headed - I attended one at a planetary(!) conference in 1996 where the doubter of the existence of exoplanet 51 Peg won handsdown ...

  8. Pavel Kroupa reply to Daniel Fischer
    13.11.2010 | 20:09

    During the debate Simon White will first talk about the standard cosmological modell. I will then give my presentation. Both presenations will be 25 mintutes long, followed by 5 minutes discussion each. Thereafter there will be a general discussion. The host/chair is Prof. Hans-Peter Nilles, who is the chair of the Bethe Centre.

  9. Peter Fred A foundational change vs a modified gravity (MOND)
    17.11.2010 | 11:52

    If you want to get rid of something questionable like the dark matter, you replace it with something better. That is what happened with the aether. Special Relativity came along and made the luminiferous ether "superfluous." The trouble with either Newton's or Einstein's gravity theory is that they both assume that MASS mediates the gravitational force. Exactly what is the property of mass that is able to make it magically attract other mass or warp space? This question is similar to the question: What is the property of the earth that can magically make all the objects in the heavens rotate around it in a 24 hour period that the followers of Aristotle for 1500 years never bothered to ask. Just as with the Ptolemaic earth-centered system, an ARTIFACT has given a mass-based gravity theory a life of its own. With the Ptolemaic system, it was the earth rotating on its axis every 24 hours that kept that theory alive for centuries. With a mass-based gravity theory, its Prevost's Law (i.e. if a mass has temperature it has radiation leaving it or entering it)that has kept this theory alive for 300 years. No one has seriously settled the question as to whether it is the mass of a body or the radiation leaving it that is doing the attracting of other mass. The Tully-Fisher law directly states that the luminosity of a galaxy is directly proportional to its highest orbital velocity raised to some power like 3 or 4. With this law, the truth is starring scientists right in their face. Go to my website by clicking my name and see four experiments where a 2%, 8.9%, 9.6% and a 16% increase in weight was observed with test masses placed between a 1000 W heat source and a cold source made of ice. As George Orwell said, "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle."

  10. Eugen Willerding Criterion for dark matter or modified gravity?
    17.11.2010 | 22:08

    Dear Pavel,

    in my opinion the problem of the accelerating universe (with so called DE) and the formation of structures is strongly connected. In both cases gravity and the exchange of gravity energy is involved. Taking the Layzer - Irvine equation d(\varrho V) + p dV = 0 to define the equation of state parameter w = p/\varrho, I found in the simplest version of a density fluctuation theory for w the formula w = 1/6( 1- \sqrt{1+6 V''(0)/\pi}. In Newtonian gravity we have V''(0) = 4\pi (poisson equation), so w = -2/3. But we derive from supernovae SN1A observations very nearly the value w = -1 (cosmological constant)! So V''(0) must be 8\pi, which is not in agreement with 4\pi of the Newtonian gravity!

    For me this result is a very strong argument in favour for NON-Newtonian gravity in the realm of galaxies and galaxy clusters! One can not change the value of V''(0) by adding some DM! One has to change the physical law of gravity in the weak - field approximation of the field equations of Einstein! By the way - the density fluctuations in the early universe must grow with time as t^{-w}. That means for standard cosmology t^{2/3}, but in a modified gravity theory t^{1} (w = -1!), which is much faster!.

    I hope you have great success in this very interesting debate tomorrow!

    Eugen Willerding

  11. Jin He Is an Algebraic Cubic Equation the Primitive Instinct Beyond Electromagnetic and Nuclear World?
    25.11.2010 | 16:29

    Is an Algebraic Cubic Equation the Primitive Instinct Beyond Electromagnetic and Nuclear World?

    My paper is published:

    ABSTRACT: Everyone lives his or her life instinctively. Does the instinct originate from the natural world? If the instinct is a rational process, is the natural world rational? Unfortunately, people have not found any rational principle behind the natural world. Because human activities are realized directly through electromagnetic and nuclear forces, people are difficult to recognize the principle. Compared to the large-scale structure of galaxies, human bodies and their immediate environment are the "microscopic" world. The electromagnetic and nuclear forces which rule the world, however, disappear in the formation of large-scale galaxy structures. Similarly they disappear in the formation of the solar system. My previous papers found many evidences that galaxies are rational. This paper shows that large-scale galaxy structure should originate from an algebraic cubic equation.

    Comments are most welcome,
    but Your image annalysis based on the paper is the most welcome!

    The first astronomic journal which reject me is Monthly Notice of Royal Astronomic Society:

    Dear Dr Jin

    Thank you for your submission, which has been read by one of the editors. They regretfully conclude, however, that the paper will not be of interest to readers of MN, and it cannot be given further consideration.

    I am sorry to disappoint you on this occasion, but we are unable to give your manuscript any further consideration.

    Bella Bella Lock (Mrs)

    Editorial Assistant "Monthly Notices" Royal Astronomical Society

    Tel: (+44) (0)1206 751771
    Fax: (+44) (0)207 287 2167

    This message is confidential and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If you have received this message in error, do not open any attachment but please notify the sender (above) and delete this message from your system

    cc: all S1M-listed co-authors.

  12. MBCilek Dark Matter and galaxy rotation problem
    19.01.2011 | 15:40

    Dear Sirs,
    I have solved the Dark Matter problem, and this is no joke..but it will take ages for it to be printed in a journal..also there is the risk of the article being stolen..can you suggest the best way to share it with the public without losing much time ??
    many thanks in advance..

  13. M. Reza Tirgan new theory of gravity
    28.06.2011 | 09:33

    According to H particle-paths hypothesis in website, a new theory of gravity based on de broglie matter wave, i,e, based on emission, is constructed. In this view a particle, e,g, photon, electron, acts like a heart. During expansion the particle emits expandon of path-length value +2h-bar in spatial medium, during the contraction it release a contracton of path-lenghts value -2h-bar towards mass medium.

  14. M. Reza Tirgan dark matter
    28.06.2011 | 10:06

    According to H particle-paths hypothesis in site, the dark matter is constructed from type R & L H particle-paths of SM configuration that surround a particle of normal matter, e.g, photon, electron of SPl configuration as its superpartner. It is converting by particle to right-handedly expandon of SNr configuration in spatial medium, and left-handedly contracting contracton of SPl configuration towards mass medium.

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